With all of the concerns about the overuse of land,fossel fuels,over forresting and the extreme traffic and grid lock in our cities,how can anyone question the environmental impact that over population and illegal immigration has on our country.

They are the naive ones.I work ,well when i'm not unemployed,in an industry that is over run with illegals and I've seen first hand the damage they can do.It also explains why there country is so run down and polluted.They just don't care.Soon America will be a turd world country too.If we dont do something soon there will be no turning back.

How would people feel if their local police would stop enforcing the speed limit,or not stop drunk drivers.Would they not be outraged?Well thats what is happening when we look the other way with illegal immigrants.What would happen if We decided to all start moving to mexico or some other country?If we were lucky we would just be deported,but realisticly we would probly be shot or at least jailed.Because it is Illegal,thats why.

Well, considering they are looking to give amnesty to 12-18 million ILLEGAL immigrants, why would anyone even give it thought of how big of an imprint to the environment that 3 million immigrants a year would make? For the sake of us all, American Citizens need to wake up, be proactive and take some control of there country by letting their representatives know you will not stand by ideally while they let this happen. We’re talking about 3 million in growth just from immigration, plus 12-18 from an amnesty, then a continuing 3 million per year there after! Completely INSANE!! I love this country, I love the freedoms I have the honor to have, given to me by the forefather and service men and women who have died achieving that freedom. I, as a citizen, will not stand by and watch it be destroyed by open borders policies. Think of the environmental impact this way, take a land mass next to where you live roughly the size of 50 miles by 50 miles, then imagine driving through Chicago, New York, Los Angeles, or Houston, because that is what they consider adding just from amnesty. Now supply that area with 2775000000 gallons of water a day, roughly 616438356 kilowatts of power, excluding the power supplied for street lights and such, 12328767 gallons of gas. The resulting factor is 544520 tons of CO2 per day (53 ton/year average US 2 person household)! How’s that for carbon footprint? The environmental impact is a HUGE factor in the quality of life we live, in the cost of everything we enjoy and need. The cost of infrastructure alone is tremendous, and we ALL get to pay for that, not just the immigrant people.

"We must put race at the center of life." Adolf Hitler.

I have read the Daily Kos Blogg before and this last one is truly disturbing. Seriously, this person borders on being a Mexo-Nazi. Slander, half truths, lies and distortions and rantings. Malthus? He really believes that immigrants come here to ride in rick-shaws. In fact immigrants come here to live life exactly as Americans do, except they factually have much larger families. There is little doubt that the person who created this slanderous rant is having serious mental health issues. I coined a term for people like this..."Xenophiles." A Xenohile is a person who has an all consuming irrational love for strangers. This is accompanied by a near psychotic hatred of native born Americans(especially white people). He desperately wants all Americans(especially white people) to wallow in unending self hatred. A Xenophile is incapable of any form of objective or holistic thinkig. He cannot imagine that everybody else isn't racists...except for immigrants...who are like living gods. His own ethnic "group" is all that matters in his altered reality. He silences all opposition with hateful name calling. All he sees is skin color and defines the entire universe based on skin color. He is frequently delusional. This man cannot tolerate anybody who doesn't believe as he does, which is pure bigotry. This man may be dangerous and undoubtedly supports anti-white racists and subversive hate groups. Racism is racism and it is never acceptable no matter what skin color is subject to irrational prejudice. I hope the FBI is keeping track of this nut case. He has deep hatreds which require professional intervention. He may or may not kill somebody but there are many other Xenophile sociopaths who will be agitated to extremee violence after listening to his rantings. Adolf would would be proud of this Mexo-Nazi.
If it were poor white Europeans from Eastern Europe(who are poorer than most Spanish speaking countries) who were endlessly storming our borders he would be out there with a machine gun...taking out the non-hispanic whities.
Anybody know how to say "Seig Heil" in Spanish?

The group Zero Population Growth was once very popular with many liberal groups including the Humanists and the Siera Club. These same people now won't mention the obvious that the more people there are the fewer resources there will be to go around.

To read the verbose and inarticulate Alfredo Martin Bravo de Rueda Espejo you would think that we are not inclusive of proud Latinos who are concerned about the environment. Our movement has it's own man named Alfredo who in contrast is an articulate writer and is a proud Mexican citizen. Our Alfredo is actively working on job creation through reforestation and carbon sequestration in one of the most depressed states in Mexico.

I suggest reading Viktor Papanek for guidance on avoiding waste and improving quality of life at the same time.

Alfredo Bravo made this response

a) After my entry ‘The charming racism of Numbers USA’ in dailykos.com/...) I found pages in which I was called "verbose and inarticulate". In these pages NumbersUSA claimed that after reading my article "you would think that we are not inclusive of proud Latinos" numbersusa.com/... Nevertheless, clicking the link you could not retrieve the promised Roy Beck’s answer to the seven points of my entry.

With respect to the "proud Latinos" who feel comfortable with a regime of castes that puts them on the winning end, I have a short entry: "Immigration policy as the personal toy of those who want to import aliens they find cute" dailykos.com/...).

There is no way around it. It you want to decide the fate of people not as individual characters but as fungible parts of a caste, whether race, family or country of origin, you are not a liberal. When, in the case of immigration, Third World immigrants are overwhelmingly black or brown, deciding their immigration fate under the guidelines set by NumbersUSA is racist.

How many of Mexico's brown population is Alfredo Bravo putting to work in jobs in his industry in Mexico the other Alfredo is creating opportunity for thousands through a nursery. What do our friend Alfredo and I argue about, he could be creating even more by promoting substitution of wood and gas with biofuel.

I watched Earth 2100. In my opinion, it centered on climate change without making any direct connection to over-population. Only during the "What can we do?" segment was controlling population addressed and then with only one sentence.

First of all, Thanks Mr. Roy Beck!!

I used to be a liberal and a democrat and strong environmentalist.
Immigration made me an Independent thinker and Voter, and while I still value the environment highly I laugh at those that think i should go Green by changing lightbulbs and riding bikes and having few or no kids while watching a tidal wave of people immigrate here that have the environment as one of their least concerns. I have friends in the Green party and tell them the day they become interested in limiting immigration is the day I will think about them as a serious environmental group.

Regarding bloggers calling the issue loopy. I have found nearly every pro immigration open border amnesty lover to be in favor of the issue because they benefit from it in some form or fashion, yet 100 percent deny it and prefer to think they have the moral high ground on the issue. By showing factually how immigration is bad for our environmemt
our opponents have two choices, stick their head in the sand and ignore facts or become what they have been calling us. They have been calling us terrrible things for years so they will never get their head out of the sand.

Our only hope is to work on those people that benefit the least from immigration explosion, those religous people and liberals that are only in it because it makes them feel good to help others, even though they are ignoring those here.

The elite at the churches will not change, they want more in their pews, the businesses won't change, they are addicted to cheap labor, the ethnic advocates won't change, they want more power for their group, the academic elites won't change, they want job security more students bring, the jewish liberals won't change, they seem to be committed to weakening the country through ethnic division plus favor importing ethnicities that disfavor jews thus strengthening the jewish population by reducing intermarriage with non Jews.
The Environmentalists might change if confronted with enough facts. The religous and bleeding heart liberals might change if they recognize the damage being done to poor working class allready here.

The biggest allies should be feminists that should oppose many of the misogynists cultures being imported and the Black leaders that should be speaking up for the loss of jobs and displacement of their people, most of which have been in this country longer than most white people.

I recommend everyone mention Numbersusa evertime they are in a blog or website to increase visibility of this organization and do more to promote it.
thanks again Roy.

Americans are probably more ignorant than they have been in more than 100 years. Few read a daily newspaper or weekly news magazine. The time when all television turned to an hour of news at dinner time is long past. We live in an entertainment saturated society that no longer provides the information necessary to stimulate the intellect to question and analyze. In that kind of environment amazing levels of nonsense find acceptance.

It doesn't help that the media work hard to hide the numbers and numerical projections that are necessary for people to intelligently evaluate the impact of immigration. Without that critical information, immigration just looks like a nice thing to do for poor people. And yes, radical liberals and business conservatives, with agendas they don't talk about, will tell whatever lies they can get away with.

But, in an information vacuum, a little information goes a long way. We need a few spokesmen the media cannot afford to ignore who will disseminate the numbers that would properly inform the immigration debate. We need people who are the news. We need Republican politicians who are on our side to use those factual numerical arguments to reach out to the center and the left. It would benefit them as well as the nation. And, somebody has to get to the Republicans who are already vying for the next presidential nomination. (They aren't going to Iowa for the scenery.) Mitt Romney understands numbers, maybe he would like some good ones.

Forget the real open borders lobbyists, even respected magazines like National Geographic write idiotic articles like this one - http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2009/03/energy-conservation/miller-tex... - where they try to feel good with some token changes in their lifestyle when it will be nullified immediately by growing immigration. Not a single reference to population or immigration.

Roy my Freind. You and Your Organization do a Fantastic Job of Exposing the Motives behind all of the Illegal Immigration.

You do however Drastically need to Improve you Expansion on this matter on just Who is Behind all of the Illegal Immigration. It is the Same Organizations that are Behind Job Exportation.

And just Who and What is Behind all of this Illegal Immigration and Job Exportation Agenda ?

The Council on Foreign Relations(CFR),and the Trilateral Commission(TC). It is these Rockefeller Organizations that Greatly Help the Globalist Wall Street Banks to Manipulate US Policy in Washinton DC by Surrounding the Presidency with CFR and TC Members in Overwheming Numbers on the Presidents Cabinet Staff. This has been going on now for several Decades and it is Way Past Time to Stop and End CFR and TC Control over the Office of the Presidency.

This is Not a Guess ...... this Saturation of the Presidential Cabinet is FACT and has been FACT for over 30 years now and this BS Must STOP.

The Two Main Party's are also Saturated with CFR/TC Membership at the Top and untill (We The People) Replace the Republicans and Democrats then there is No Hope of Taking our Blessed Country Back !!!

http://www.constitutionparty.com/

http://breakingfreeinamerica.blogspot.com/

To try to Fight Illegal Immigration without coming to Grips with the Political Domination through Presidential Staff CFR/TC Membership is like Fighting with One Arm Behind your back. Your gonna Lose !!!

Roy,

I used to be a leftist but am now an independent. If anybody hasn't said it yet about the liberal reactions to your environmental warnings, to me these are typical liberal/leftist political reactions. They basically mock people they don't agree with like yourself and try to make them the objects of jokes and laughter rather than take up the arguments rationally. This is one main reason why I consider them a joke on many issues, but the main point is that this is one of the disingenuous psychological techniques they use when their arguments fail. They may be right some of the time, but from my experience they play dirty whenever they can. To some extent I think we are up against people who don't care what morality is.

One of the virtues greatly respected by most liberals is generosity, i.e. a quality that can lead to greater tolerance and understanding of differences and to an appreciation of divergent points of view; it is very disappointing to me to read comments on ostensibly liberal websites that dismiss arguments out of hand without any actual analysis. E.g. Reviews such as "novel argument" or "hilariously stupid" are not analytical in my opinion.

Your position that immigration driven population growth in excess of infrastructure capacity is a potential threat to the environment in the United States is very well grounded in my view, especially if one considers the impacts of rapid population number changes on the environment in other regions of the world.

For example, we are now living in an era of unprecedented biodiversity losses. Most biologists are aware of this situation, and most of them understand that the losses are attributable in part at least to the activities of human populations.

For example, does anyone seriously believe that recent geopolitical turmoil in many nations in Africa has not impacted the natural environment there negatively? Have sudden population shifts such as those resulting from migration due to war in adjacent countries, AIDS (altering demographic ratios significantly)and internal national ethnic/tribal rivalries not adversely impacted the survival rates of many species of animals and plants in many African nations for instance? Why should biodiversity in the United States be exempt from human population impacts? (I don't think it is, by the way.)

Perhaps some liberal commentators who disagree with your views and those of NumbersUSA simply have not paid much attention to the many liberal arguments in favor of immigration numbers reductions because they hold strong views favoring open borders. But reducing immigration numbers and supporting sovereignty is a genuine bipartisan issue. Both liberals and conservatives have reasons supporting immigration reduction at this time as a matter of immigration policy.

The people who argue against a connection between the nation's population size and impact on the environment are giving lip service to the American general audience's concern for the environment.

Most of the general audience is not as strongly committed to immigration policy as are either NumbersUSA activists or the Open Border Lobbyists (OBL). Since that is the case there is a benefit to the OBL in "playing stupid".

There is a mistake that people in a political argument make that the desired result is changing the minds of the other side. The OBL is unshakaby driven by their own ulterior motives. By "playing stupid" OBL hopes to frustrate the Enforcement Lobbyists to drop a line of argument because it does not make an impact upon the minds of the OBL.

It does not matter whether the OBL ever concedes your point Roy the target market is the general audience. The general audience are the ones who would reject an amnesty based on environmental impact.

Hahaha. You are so right! I'm pretty sure that the people who blogged and commented on my testimony are committed OBLs.  I think most probably ARE fairly ignorant on this topic, but I see your point that it is to their benefit to act like the connection doesn't make sense to protect their ideological commitment to open borders.

As many of you know, I was a newspaper reporter in the late 1960s and 1970s when the national environmental-quality consciousness was being formed.  Until then, Americans simply put up with dark, particulate-filled skies and urban streams than ran in the colors of their most prominent effluent. Most people assume you just had to put up with that quality of life because that was the price of progress.  The corporations fought with everything they had to perpetuate those attitudes.

But repetitive, grassroots education (without benefit of the internet!)  and very smart, well-organized leadership elite changed the course of public health and conservation before we actually fell into a full-blown crisis.  In the midst of that, nearly every American was familiar with the argument for zero population growth, even if not all agreed with it.

Today, after the environmental, journalistic, academic and political elites have silenced almost all talk about the population part of environmental quality, we really shouldn't blame the American people for being ignorant.  The elites have colluded in UNeducating the masses over the last 25 years. 

But if the masses could be educated about this 40 years ago, surely that can happen again.

-- ROY

Roy
Immigration impacts...I have known about this level of ignorance, lack of insight and foresight by the liberals and
conservatives for ages. Democracy will only recognize and react to an absolute castrophy. That is the nature of the beast. Cassandra is rarely heard and never heeded.
Years of following our slow moving collapse due to over immigration and uncontrolled immigration shout out the biggest lesson we can get from our efforts. It's another frog in the pan of water on the stove. The frog is too stupid to realize what is happening if it happens slowly. "It will take an environmental, economic and social "Pearl Harbor" to change our views and actions regarding immigration." Until them dogmatism reins and we only slow the events that will lead to many forms of immigration driven disaster for the USA. Reason doesn't work in an unenlightened "Republic". View the recent collapse of the financial system and it many causes.
Yes, I have become a cynic but sometimes cynics are justified by the reality we face.

Roy

When I watched your testimony, it crossed my mind that the environmental issue was a bit esoteric and perhaps too single topic focused.

What people don't get is that "illegals" are doing something illegal and that legal green card holders are in many cases hurting our economy more than they are helping.

When I argue with people on the topic, I like to bring up the economic costs and use the data from NumbersUSA web site.

I often get either a blank look or hey, this is propaganda from a fringe organization, or these are human beings that deserve to be here since their countries are poor.
Or recently some arguments that if the illegals were not hear working cheaply on doing jobs that Americans don't want, or costs of American made goods and services would go way up hurting our economy.

Finding more and more that I am losing the argument.

Like to make a suggestion. There is a lot of data available on NumbersUSA web site regarding the costs to tax payers and the economy, but if some of the team could do a really good summary with some updated graphs and charts, perhaps dumbed down so the uneducated can understand, I think that it would be really helpful.

Anyway, will keep trying.

The reaction to your testimony should be a lesson to us "restrictionists". In our communications and discussions on immigration, we should include a reminder of the impact of immigration on our population ( I believe it was the Pew Hispanic Center that said that 82% of our population growth will be due to immigrants and their offspring), and the inescapable fact that more people cause more environmental damage.

According to the news, China is fearful of disrupting North Korea because to do so could result in a mass migration of North Koreans into China. Perhaps we should send Janet Napatalino to explain to the Chinese what a wonderful thing this would be. Apparently the Chinese don’t understand.

Roy
Do not get too "astounded" by the ignorance and stupidity of the American people. 50% are ignorant, the next 25% plain stupid. The good life here in our country(and it has been good) has bred the decline in intelligence, as others have commented here. Most have never wanted for anything, all needs have been met easily(mine included). BUT I firmly believe that overpopulation causes EVERYTHING to suffer, the environment included. I am truly amazed at my "co-workers" that have no clue of damn near anything going on! They know nothing of illegals, too high legal immigration,massive job losses,do not know what "laws" really are or even who makes them. Heck, most of my co-workers do not even vote or know who represents them in Congress! THEY SAY THEY VOTE AND DO KNOW but a quick series of questions tells me they did not bother and flat do not know. I work with about 100 people everyday, it is truly frustrating! It is great we are allowed to voice our opinions but I sure would like to talk to people who research and do not base their "opinions" on just 1 or articles and the SAME TV News channel...people hear or read one thing and it becomes gospel to them. Keep up the good work and when these "changes" hit(meaning it actually AFFECTS them) these ignorant , stupid people.. THEN we will hear from them, but not before.

One only has to look at the "environment" of the third world societies and countries from whence these people feel the need to leave to seek a better life here to realize the connection between over-population and poverty and environmental degradation.

Thinking logically and rationally is becoming more and more "not the average USA citizen's strong suit"; the average USA citizen has had too much handed to them on a silver platter that they did not have to strain their brain to think about to acquire, resulting in as flabby brains as bodies, especially the younger crowd who has grown up on third grade level TV media for intellectual development instead of intellectually digesting the classical wisdom of the old masters and historical philosophers.

I have no problems understanding and concurring with Roy's testimoney from the environmental perspective; however, the environmental arguments are highly controversial in and of themselves, totally independent of the immigration issue.

Environmental concerns do often seem to swing a lot of weight for consideration with legislators and politicians, sometimes seemingly having more impact on their thinking than the obvious arguments like crime, jobs, welfare economics, disease, and other obvious problems said government officials just can't seem to savy.

So we need to keep up the good work on all argument fronts without being intimidated by fool's folly.

We have all watched the "idiots" off the street on Jay Leno's .... JAYWALKERS ....

We are supposed to think these stupid people are few in number.

They seem incredibly uneducated and mentally lacking.....

But these morons aren't few in number....they are the vast majority of Americans!

The intelligence level of America has been declining for many decades. . . .